You’ve got it wrong, Peter. You’re also an intellectual coward for blocking my comments on Facebook. My argument is sound, yours is not.
The “trick in the book” is actually your straw man/red herring meme: “the denigration of the Jews.”
For many of us, our outrage truly isn’t about the Jews. It’s the state of Israel and the rabid r-cists who support cleansing Palestinians.
Maybe if you could SEE this you could also see the falsity of your narrative and thereby BELIEVE us. You can’t believe us because you choose to ignore the ugly reality of Izrael and the US. It’s akin to ignoring and not believing r&pe victims.
The Israeli government and the United States pro Zionist media promote *faux antisemitism* thereby weakening the meaning and power of *real* antisemitism, thus endangering Jews by throwing us under the bus as a shield for atrocity.
The meme you refer to that depicts antisemitism as a shield for g-cide is accurate because antisemitism IS being used as pretext. Ironically, you too endanger Jews by ignoring the weaponization of antisemitism.
This is all really heavy.. in a big heavy moment in history.. The USA let they guard down on 9-11.. who’s fault was that? The USA.. Israel let their guard down on Oct 7..
Both events were horrible.. and both countries that let their guard down, totally over reacted …
Gary, I appreciate much of what you’re saying. Still, I believe the comparison is inapt. There are several reasons for that, but the most immediate is this: Iraq lies 6,000 miles from the East Coast of the United States. Hamas, and the territory it controlled, was by contrast a bicycle ride away.
Beautiful thought..that will never happen.. Why? Because people have needs.. lots of needs and wants.. and that is changing with climate change.
If the mid east didn’t have oil.. I wonder if people could live there.. when the oil runs dry.. what would they do…
I hate to say this, but the world chaos is just going to get worse and bigger.. then more genocide.
The answer is better leaders.. but the billionaires, won’t let that happen.. and 37% of the people are to stupid, to select the correct leader, for their own future
Jack, thank you for reading my post. I don’t have time to respond in full at the moment, but two things:
1.) I didn’t intentionally block you from responding on FB. That’s not my way. Especially since your response was articulate, and because you sound like a reasonable and passionate person, I welcome it.
2.) I’ll send a fuller reply soon. I’m sure there are bridges between us. I hope to amplify those, rather than simply refute your points.
Thanks and I am open to a discussion. I have read numerous of your ME posts and they have all been one-sided and denialist, imo. And I’m perfectly fine with your refuting anything I say but I ask for good logic, not fallacies. Dis you unintentionally block me from your FB post? Even when I google it and it appears it won’t let me access it. Let’s plz clear that up; plz respond to my comment on your fb post if able, thx
Jack, without having anything to do with you, I removed the entire FB post last Friday afternoon. At this point no one is able to respond. I appreciate your interest in my posts. I also took some time to read several of yours.
You say that "For many of us, our outrage truly isn’t about the Jews. It’s the state of Israel and the rabid r-cists who support cleansing Palestinians." AntiZionism is a mask for your Jew-hating, and it is a flimsy one . Most Jews are Zionists and have an indelible connection to Israel. As for cleansing Palestinians, providing medical treatment, even vaccines in the midst of the war and warning them so that civillians can avoid the bombing, is not ethnic cleansing.
No it’s not a mask. You don’t know my personal truth. I am Jewish and lost family in the Inquistion and the Holocaust. You seem as blind as Peter, unable to apprehend the genocide Israel is committing, perhaps precisely because of the “ indelible connection to Israel“ you assert. As a Jew you should be outraged but your comfort and unwillingness to override your indelibility seems more important :/ and the warnings to vacate are BS propaganda; Israel bombs and shoots those trying to escape. Maybe you missed that news. In conclusion, just look at the numbers of dead civilians killed by Israel. Look at 90% of Gaza destroyed. Now tell me they aren’t trying to wipe out Gaza and Gazans. You are in frank denial.
It was obvious from your comments that you are Jewish. At one point you said "us" where a gentile would have used "you". Ironically, you are one making assumptions. That indelible connection is something verified by various surveys and opinion polls. Thankfully the vast majority of Jews are not self-hating ones.
As far as the news goes, nearly all of the legacy media has relayed the Hms propaganda, because outrage garners clicks (and let's not forget the Qtr money that has been thrown into the most prestigious universities, media outlets and more). Also, even if the Gza Ministry of Health's (controlled by Hms) statistics are accurate, 60,000 people out of 2 million is 3%. Hardly a genocide. And the childhood vaccination program run by Israel for Gzn children, which continued during the war, is verifiable. And by the way, having military instillations beneath civilian infrastructure is a war crime. FACTS MATTER.
Yes, facts do matter, and your conspiracy theories are not facts. Nor are your convenient, cherry-picked statistics. Please research the definition of genocide; it's not what you propose. Summing the destruction of Gaza (90% destroyed with dozens of war crimes) as "outrage" to garner clicks is dishonest and sociopathic. A convenient means to deny reality, which reality has been broadcast across the world for the last years. Israel is a fascist state and the denial of its horrors is akin to those who still support trump. consider yourself a cult member. :/
Peter, I'm sorry. It's not me. I didn't know that anti-semitism existed or what it was until you started taking about it and I finally looked it up. I can't believe it actually exists. And I didn't know you were Jewish until you mentioned it, even though I've seen you 6 times here in Madison, although now that I think about it, one of those times was at some sort of Jewish get together at the UW Memorial Union. Peace. -Bob
Huh? I'm sorry but I find this impossible to believe. I've known about antisemitism since I was in elementary school. There was always some eejit around that cussed out the Jews and blamed all sorts of things on them. You never heard that???? You never saw Peter with his kippah on? Never looked up Chabad? OK, I didn't know Peter was a LUBOVITCHER until recently but I ALWAYS knew he was a Jew ever since I first heard of him. You saw him 6 times and never heard him utter anything Jewish? You had to LOOK UP antisemitism? You have to be JOKING.
Peter is on point. Refusing to be killed, wanting to live and to attend a music festival is not horrendous. Self-defence is not a horror. The atrocities of the 7th (which they've vowed to repeat) were horrendous. You seem to expect Jews and other Israelis to just sit there and take it. That's wrong. As for the rest of the world, some of us are glad to go against the flow. We don't love dead Jews. We like thriving ones. Shavua tov and may the One who creates peace on high, indeed bring peace to us and to all Israel.
I've seen it. I've also noticed your racist assumption that all Gazans are "brown-skinned." It's the classic oppressor vs. oppressed narrative. Re. parroting, I was raised Zionist and do not need Peter or anyone else's writing to speak/ write the truth.
Oh my, I am anything BUT lazy. I think it is TOTALLY wrong to put blame on a whole group of folks because we don't like some things that their leaders are doing. Do we want to be judged that way because of Donald Trump? There are honest reasons why some of us oppose the war and the actions of Trump and Netanyahu, but we would be HORRIFIED at the idea of blaming an entire country or group of people for that. Antiwar belief is never an excuse to hate a whole group of people. I don't believe in hating "the Jews" or "the Iranians" or "the Muslims." That is the way to fascism! That is a road I refuse to walk down; that's not why I was put on this Earth.
The location of the photo, the plaza in front of Beit Ariella, a great library, is so appropriate.
You’ve got it wrong, Peter. You’re also an intellectual coward for blocking my comments on Facebook. My argument is sound, yours is not.
The “trick in the book” is actually your straw man/red herring meme: “the denigration of the Jews.”
For many of us, our outrage truly isn’t about the Jews. It’s the state of Israel and the rabid r-cists who support cleansing Palestinians.
Maybe if you could SEE this you could also see the falsity of your narrative and thereby BELIEVE us. You can’t believe us because you choose to ignore the ugly reality of Izrael and the US. It’s akin to ignoring and not believing r&pe victims.
The Israeli government and the United States pro Zionist media promote *faux antisemitism* thereby weakening the meaning and power of *real* antisemitism, thus endangering Jews by throwing us under the bus as a shield for atrocity.
The meme you refer to that depicts antisemitism as a shield for g-cide is accurate because antisemitism IS being used as pretext. Ironically, you too endanger Jews by ignoring the weaponization of antisemitism.
This is all really heavy.. in a big heavy moment in history.. The USA let they guard down on 9-11.. who’s fault was that? The USA.. Israel let their guard down on Oct 7..
Both events were horrible.. and both countries that let their guard down, totally over reacted …
Gary, I appreciate much of what you’re saying. Still, I believe the comparison is inapt. There are several reasons for that, but the most immediate is this: Iraq lies 6,000 miles from the East Coast of the United States. Hamas, and the territory it controlled, was by contrast a bicycle ride away.
Good morning Peter.. we pick our fights and debates.. too many genocides world wide though out history..
Let there be peace. May the need for war be gone forever.
Beautiful thought..that will never happen.. Why? Because people have needs.. lots of needs and wants.. and that is changing with climate change.
If the mid east didn’t have oil.. I wonder if people could live there.. when the oil runs dry.. what would they do…
I hate to say this, but the world chaos is just going to get worse and bigger.. then more genocide.
The answer is better leaders.. but the billionaires, won’t let that happen.. and 37% of the people are to stupid, to select the correct leader, for their own future
Jack, thank you for reading my post. I don’t have time to respond in full at the moment, but two things:
1.) I didn’t intentionally block you from responding on FB. That’s not my way. Especially since your response was articulate, and because you sound like a reasonable and passionate person, I welcome it.
2.) I’ll send a fuller reply soon. I’m sure there are bridges between us. I hope to amplify those, rather than simply refute your points.
Chag Sameach
Thanks and I am open to a discussion. I have read numerous of your ME posts and they have all been one-sided and denialist, imo. And I’m perfectly fine with your refuting anything I say but I ask for good logic, not fallacies. Dis you unintentionally block me from your FB post? Even when I google it and it appears it won’t let me access it. Let’s plz clear that up; plz respond to my comment on your fb post if able, thx
Jack, without having anything to do with you, I removed the entire FB post last Friday afternoon. At this point no one is able to respond. I appreciate your interest in my posts. I also took some time to read several of yours.
I'll block that buffoon gladly.
You say that "For many of us, our outrage truly isn’t about the Jews. It’s the state of Israel and the rabid r-cists who support cleansing Palestinians." AntiZionism is a mask for your Jew-hating, and it is a flimsy one . Most Jews are Zionists and have an indelible connection to Israel. As for cleansing Palestinians, providing medical treatment, even vaccines in the midst of the war and warning them so that civillians can avoid the bombing, is not ethnic cleansing.
No it’s not a mask. You don’t know my personal truth. I am Jewish and lost family in the Inquistion and the Holocaust. You seem as blind as Peter, unable to apprehend the genocide Israel is committing, perhaps precisely because of the “ indelible connection to Israel“ you assert. As a Jew you should be outraged but your comfort and unwillingness to override your indelibility seems more important :/ and the warnings to vacate are BS propaganda; Israel bombs and shoots those trying to escape. Maybe you missed that news. In conclusion, just look at the numbers of dead civilians killed by Israel. Look at 90% of Gaza destroyed. Now tell me they aren’t trying to wipe out Gaza and Gazans. You are in frank denial.
It was obvious from your comments that you are Jewish. At one point you said "us" where a gentile would have used "you". Ironically, you are one making assumptions. That indelible connection is something verified by various surveys and opinion polls. Thankfully the vast majority of Jews are not self-hating ones.
As far as the news goes, nearly all of the legacy media has relayed the Hms propaganda, because outrage garners clicks (and let's not forget the Qtr money that has been thrown into the most prestigious universities, media outlets and more). Also, even if the Gza Ministry of Health's (controlled by Hms) statistics are accurate, 60,000 people out of 2 million is 3%. Hardly a genocide. And the childhood vaccination program run by Israel for Gzn children, which continued during the war, is verifiable. And by the way, having military instillations beneath civilian infrastructure is a war crime. FACTS MATTER.
Yes, facts do matter, and your conspiracy theories are not facts. Nor are your convenient, cherry-picked statistics. Please research the definition of genocide; it's not what you propose. Summing the destruction of Gaza (90% destroyed with dozens of war crimes) as "outrage" to garner clicks is dishonest and sociopathic. A convenient means to deny reality, which reality has been broadcast across the world for the last years. Israel is a fascist state and the denial of its horrors is akin to those who still support trump. consider yourself a cult member. :/
There is no reason to discuss anything with a rabid antisemite who should've been swallowed instead of concieved.
Go fuck yourself, you worthless, blood-libeling scumbag.
Peter, I'm sorry. It's not me. I didn't know that anti-semitism existed or what it was until you started taking about it and I finally looked it up. I can't believe it actually exists. And I didn't know you were Jewish until you mentioned it, even though I've seen you 6 times here in Madison, although now that I think about it, one of those times was at some sort of Jewish get together at the UW Memorial Union. Peace. -Bob
Huh? I'm sorry but I find this impossible to believe. I've known about antisemitism since I was in elementary school. There was always some eejit around that cussed out the Jews and blamed all sorts of things on them. You never heard that???? You never saw Peter with his kippah on? Never looked up Chabad? OK, I didn't know Peter was a LUBOVITCHER until recently but I ALWAYS knew he was a Jew ever since I first heard of him. You saw him 6 times and never heard him utter anything Jewish? You had to LOOK UP antisemitism? You have to be JOKING.
It really is a form of madness-sickness. Excellent choice of photo. I find myself saying that prayer increasingly often.
The sickness is using antisemitism as a shield to commit horrors against fellow brown-skinned semites. Peter has it wrong.
Peter is on point. Refusing to be killed, wanting to live and to attend a music festival is not horrendous. Self-defence is not a horror. The atrocities of the 7th (which they've vowed to repeat) were horrendous. You seem to expect Jews and other Israelis to just sit there and take it. That's wrong. As for the rest of the world, some of us are glad to go against the flow. We don't love dead Jews. We like thriving ones. Shavua tov and may the One who creates peace on high, indeed bring peace to us and to all Israel.
With due respect, you are simply parroting his logical fallacies. Please see my other comment on this thread, which debunks his premise.
I've seen it. I've also noticed your racist assumption that all Gazans are "brown-skinned." It's the classic oppressor vs. oppressed narrative. Re. parroting, I was raised Zionist and do not need Peter or anyone else's writing to speak/ write the truth.
As always, eloquently stated. I wish it were not so.
His argument is a red herring and straw man, utterly manipulative, that ironically endangers Jews. See my comment here.
Ooooooo... Thank you !!!
Nice photo, too.
Oh my, I am anything BUT lazy. I think it is TOTALLY wrong to put blame on a whole group of folks because we don't like some things that their leaders are doing. Do we want to be judged that way because of Donald Trump? There are honest reasons why some of us oppose the war and the actions of Trump and Netanyahu, but we would be HORRIFIED at the idea of blaming an entire country or group of people for that. Antiwar belief is never an excuse to hate a whole group of people. I don't believe in hating "the Jews" or "the Iranians" or "the Muslims." That is the way to fascism! That is a road I refuse to walk down; that's not why I was put on this Earth.
It's the success.
They don’t have a clue, it’s just follow the leader. Whichever narcissist or scaredy cat needs a scapegoat doesn’t care which one it is.